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what's up ladies and gentlemen thank you

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for joining uh witness citizen here

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today on this well you're not where i am

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but it's pretty cold out

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in wisconsin it's kind of the crappy

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part about this place

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but

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you know the seasons kind of go

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um

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hand in hand with emotions and

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creativity for me so sometimes it's not

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so bad to be quite honest with you but

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um just wanted to thank you for coming

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out everybody who's here i really do

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appreciate it open mind and clarity that

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is a super nice comment

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um

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the grand chess game i love chess

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um very much i'm getting close to being

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a master

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but

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i had a little bit of ways to go yet

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so jos lara benji dutch

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everybody that's here um i really

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appreciate it

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if you're watching and not logged in log

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in

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stuff um if you have money i'll take it

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just you know give me as much as you

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want

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i'm here in collecting so you can do

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that too

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but we have a really great guest today

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we have nick cook uh if for those of you

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that have been here with me for a while

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which i always feel funny saying a while

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because it's only really been since

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april but i'm almost like 300 episodes

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but he was uh towards that beginning

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there and um

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got along really well with him he's a

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great guy who talks about consciousness

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i remember vinnie disclosure team was

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there um it was fantastic so and i've

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been looking forward to talking to him

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again ever since then

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and so we will be doing that along with

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mr g christopher king

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my right hand uh deputy

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so

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a very good look that being said i'll be

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right back

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program project blue book run by the air

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force and i have uh uh quite

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unequivocally described it to scientific

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colleagues back in the states as

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superficial and incompetent

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welcome to witness citizens

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[Music]

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all right yeah a good point laura it's a

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historic day we have astro the amendment

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passed

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um so hopefully we'll touch on that too

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uh first person i'll break into here mr

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g christopher king how are you

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hey sean

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uh wonderful i'm so happy to be here i

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think it'll be a great show i'm i'm

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looking forward to talking with nick

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that'll be great and uh

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another wonderful intro from you just no

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shortage of incredible intros oh thank

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you very much i really appreciate that i

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like the uh tune on that one a lot and

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that will be a part of like the promo

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that i'm working on for

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the 17th event which

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i just confirmed to blumenthal so you

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heard it here first

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i love that guy yeah yeah uh looking

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forward to that so without further ado

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we're gonna bring on

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the man the myth

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the legend

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uh the super cool guy

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the very smart guy

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very well-read guy the amazing writer

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guy and again the legend

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mr nick cook how are you

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uh well i'm extremely well thanks sean

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and um

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yeah thanks for the introduction uh

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as we discussed shortly before we became

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came on air i i'm a

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tad jet lagged from my return from las

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vegas and picking up my uh bix award uh

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from uh mr bigelow on consciousness but

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um if i can remain conscious for the

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rest of this interview then we're all

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good

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you are funny

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that is fantastic yeah um

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that is pretty great i mean especially

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considering i think it was you know our

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first conversation you were just kind of

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dabbling into the whole consciousness

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thing or opening up seemingly opening up

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to it a lot more um but you know after

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reading your essay i think it's been

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maybe a little bit longer it's been

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creeping up on you so

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um

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you know and jay actually brought up a

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good point to me how do you go from

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black text to rate and consciousness

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essays like well

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there's a lot to uh actually there's

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quite a lot to unpack in what you've

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just said i think when we

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when we last spoke

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um i think i probably knew that i was

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entering the bix contest but i didn't

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tell anyone

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because

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uh well a i thought it would be

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extremely unwise to

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signal to everyone that i was entering

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this competition for which i was

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eminently unqualified i might add

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to to to enter it um and i thought

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if i get nowhere of course if i don't

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tell anyone no one will be any the wiser

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that i entered so that's why i wasn't

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telling people

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secondly secondly so how did i get from

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a former

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defense journalist into the whole

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consciousness thing well

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uh you know i

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i've

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slash ufo sure question for a while

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um

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and again i've not sort of really

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signaled that too much i mean

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i think probably since

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the new york times is

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[Music]

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uh story that came out four years ago on

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the whole issue of uh what the navy

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was encountering and the sort of the the

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the video revelations of tic tac and

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others you know i i think that sort of

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liberated me to um

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think about it and talk about it a

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little bit more

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but the the point of the

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where that connects with the whole bix

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thing

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is that

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you know i was very aware that

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you know if if i were to make any

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progress at all on

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my own understanding of what uap

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are

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or have been or the way they manifest

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i wasn't going to get anywhere or any

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further by going down the conventional

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road

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which was just looking at it as a nuts

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and bolts phenomenon right so

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i had an opportunity over the last

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couple of years to get involved in

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consciousness research i got some grant

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funding to pursue that

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and it enabled me to really get my teeth

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into it i mean in a way that i wouldn't

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have been able to had i just

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been sort of peripherally interested in

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it

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and i knew that you know if i could

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if i could make any meaningful headway

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for myself in that research

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amongst other things it might enable me

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to

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sort of get a bit granular a bit more

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granular on the ufo issue so that's

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where the two kind of connect um

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you know having said all of that of

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course it's just fantastic to have

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been recognized as one of the 29 winners

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of that contest and i'm still

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slightly bowled over and in shock about

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it but um anyway it was a great

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experience as well being in las vegas to

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get the award

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uh and um you know i'm i'm i'm grateful

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to be safely back home as well

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yeah how was the trip it was

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the trip was amazing um i mean i went uh

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i went

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across the pond uh a week ago today so i

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went arrived in las vegas last tuesday

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uh well actually um what is it this

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wednesday

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so a little over a week ago today

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and um spent a few days acclimatizing uh

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the awards ceremony was on saturday

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um

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it was

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uh fantastic merely to get inside the

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bigelow aerospace facility which is

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where it was held

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and so

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i then uh set off back again on sunday

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arrive back on monday so yeah i'm

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i saw an um a wonderful picture of you

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and how put off and that wasn't the

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first time that you've met hal you've

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met hel before is that right

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yeah um

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[Music]

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i wrote a book uh 20 odd years ago it

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came out anyway called the hunt for zero

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point

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um and i encountered

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hal put off during the research for that

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hal's

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interests are

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many and varied

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i was actually going to see him

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to talk to him about new forms of

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propulsion and energy

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that might have underpinned a top secret

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research effort by the united states

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government into

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flying vehicles that would resemble a

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ufo

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but in the course of encountering

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um howe and to talk to him about

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zero-point energy and anti-gravity and

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other things

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uh

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i

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sort of

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dimly and then increasingly became aware

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that he was involved in other areas of

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research

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of course he was a founder

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starter um

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sort of

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godfather

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of the remote viewing program which was

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the cia's initially the cia's psychic

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spying program

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um

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so there again we have a sort of connect

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uh between the world of uh ufology

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and consciousness so

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um you know they do connect in more

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areas than people would naturally think

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they do

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um and hal of course is at the nexus of

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of all of that stuff

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well yeah i mean i can say from my own

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experience which you know i always find

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that i really try and only speak on

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those

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you know or from knowledge gained from

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those

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uh is you are exactly correct i mean my

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my big

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you know i've been saying this a lot

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lately but ontological shock

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experience because i've had others but

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that was the one that

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really shook me the most

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wouldn't have without the consciousness

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aspect without the

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the dream premonition from years before

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that game you know became exactly

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true and happened almost to a t like it

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did years earlier you know

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and i think

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a lot of the times um

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it seems like that aspect of these

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sightings is what really

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um is the

288
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:38,480
kind of catalyst for hooking somebody in

289
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:40,640
or not like without that

290
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:42,720
uh sometimes it's just you know a

291
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:45,279
sighting you know i saw something yeah

292
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:47,920
it was crazy it was it was fine but

293
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:49,680
you know i'm not obsessed with it but

294
00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:52,000
it's it's that part of it oftentimes

295
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,320
that it really gets you in and you know

296
00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:56,720
and briefly going through your essay and

297
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:58,320
everything um

298
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,680
you know i've

299
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:01,839
again i've

300
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:03,360
you know seen

301
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:04,399
i've read

302
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:06,160
similar experiences

303
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:08,800
to the ones you were writing about um

304
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,040
you know starting with your um

305
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:13,760
mother-in-law who who passed away and

306
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:15,920
if i have this right it it was your wife

307
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:17,680
who grabbed her hand as

308
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:20,399
the the precise moment it happened

309
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:22,480
um just a couple weeks ago my uncle

310
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:26,480
passed away um and i randomly decided to

311
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:28,320
go to my parents house which i go like

312
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,399
every other month or so i didn't even

313
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:32,560
tell him i walk into the basement

314
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,639
and my dad's on the phone and it's the

315
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:36,560
call that he had passed away you know

316
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:38,880
it's just like it's

317
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:41,519
those precise things as you were

318
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:43,200
discussing that

319
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:46,240
really make a a strong

320
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:48,000
uh case for

321
00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:49,360
consciousness

322
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:51,279
um surviving

323
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:53,120
past this life so

324
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:55,360
um you know it was quite enlightening uh

325
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:57,360
reading that and

326
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:59,600
you know how did how did you

327
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:02,079
you know kind of process

328
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,560
that situation when it happened to your

329
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:06,160
wife it seems like you almost took it on

330
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:13,269
well it was one of the it's probably the

331
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:14,399
um

332
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:17,519
single most sort of catalyzing influence

333
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:18,800
in

334
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:24,639
with and understand what consciousness

335
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:28,079
well consciousness phenomena and and

336
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,519
what they represent and how they

337
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:31,440
manifest um

338
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:35,680
as you as you said sean um i was at the

339
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:37,839
bedside of my mother-in-law

340
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,160
when uh she was

341
00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:42,320
dying close to death we'd been with her

342
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:43,120
for

343
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,560
a day or so

344
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:46,399
she'd slipped into a coma

345
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:49,120
um there were about six or seven family

346
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:51,360
members in the room including my wife

347
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:54,399
who was as you said holding her hand and

348
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:55,839
was holding her hand at the precise

349
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:58,720
moment she died and the you know i'm a

350
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:00,320
pretty

351
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:04,240
data-driven guy right um and of course

352
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:05,600
it was a

353
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:08,240
a a a shocking

354
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:11,440
uh intensely moving experience

355
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:13,760
to be at the bedside

356
00:14:18,069 --> 00:14:14,639
of

357
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:18,079
someone who is dying it's a privileged

358
00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:18,880
um

359
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:22,000
a privileged thing as well to be there

360
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:22,880
but

361
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:25,199
at that moment when she

362
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:26,720
literally

363
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:29,120
passed over she died

364
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:32,079
my wife stood up and said to the room

365
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:35,120
everything's all right everything's fine

366
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:38,079
and in in in a way like she really meant

367
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:41,600
it and i'm thinking hang on a second

368
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,279
uh

369
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:45,360
actually everything isn't fine your

370
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:48,639
dearly beloved mother has just died why

371
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:49,760
are you saying this i mean this is

372
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:51,360
what's going through my head

373
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:53,040
yeah and

374
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:55,360
when i got a chance to speak to her

375
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:56,959
about it later

376
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:59,920
she said weren't you there as well and i

377
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:01,040
went

378
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:03,519
where exactly and she said

379
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:06,079
well i was in this place which was

380
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:08,000
timeless and infinite and everything was

381
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:09,600
connected and

382
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:12,639
it was sort of suffused with this

383
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:16,639
feeling of intense joyous love

384
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:20,320
and uh it felt more real than this place

385
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:27,030
no i wasn't and and furthermore um i

386
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,440
need to know what you experienced

387
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:31,680
because this was obviously intense and

388
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,320
real it comes from someone that i

389
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:36,160
trust i mean we've been married for we

390
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:38,160
had been married at that this was

391
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:39,759
seven years ago so we've been married

392
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:42,800
for i don't know 23 four years

393
00:15:46,069 --> 00:15:44,240
so uh

394
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,079
i that was the sort of the catalyst for

395
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:47,839
me wanting to

396
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:50,720
get to grips with what it was that she

397
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:53,920
had encountered and i discovered when i

398
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,320
googled this that it was actually a

399
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:58,079
thing it was called a shared death

400
00:16:01,590 --> 00:15:59,759
experience i mean i'd heard of

401
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:01,600
near-death experiences but i'd not heard

402
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:04,639
of shared death experiences before which

403
00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:05,759
are

404
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:09,880
all of the or many of the the the

405
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,279
experiencing feelings that you get

406
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:15,600
uh from a near-death experience or those

407
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:17,600
things that i just mentioned or that my

408
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:19,040
wife described

409
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:20,480
um

410
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:21,680
but

411
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:23,199
obviously

412
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,519
from someone who is with the dying

413
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:27,920
person not happening to the dying person

414
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:30,880
itself so you can't for a start write it

415
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:32,160
off as

416
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:35,199
uh skeptics do and

417
00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:37,440
would and i'm not

418
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:39,440
averse to this because i'm pretty

419
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:42,160
skeptical myself and that is

420
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:44,240
that you know it's the dying brain that

421
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:46,560
is manifesting these things well it

422
00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:48,000
couldn't have been that in my wife's

423
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,519
case because she's next door so um

424
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:52,959
you know all of this

425
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:54,800
kicked me into

426
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:57,440
wanting to find out what had happened

427
00:17:03,749 --> 00:16:59,920
and i think i write about that as a sort

428
00:17:05,550 --> 00:17:03,759
of precursor to the data that follows in

429
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:05,560
my essay

430
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:06,880
[Music]

431
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:09,039
yeah i think and it's such a beautiful

432
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:10,799
it's such a beautiful moment to have

433
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:13,120
read and and it's such a beautiful

434
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:14,160
moment to

435
00:17:17,829 --> 00:17:15,520
experience something like that

436
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,839
especially with somebody that when when

437
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:19,600
you're already in a loving relationship

438
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:22,240
you already have that basis of trust and

439
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:24,160
thinking of these points where

440
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:26,720
you know for as you pointed out in your

441
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:29,120
essay so much of this comes down to

442
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:31,679
stigma when people choose to speak about

443
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:34,240
these situations and

444
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:35,200
and

445
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:38,080
thinking of how many umpteen you know

446
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:39,760
countless times there probably have been

447
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:42,480
between real in relationships when

448
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,240
people chose not to speak of these

449
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:46,480
things rather than when they do

450
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:49,520
i i'm i think it's really beautiful

451
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,480
that she spoke to you about this because

452
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:54,480
you know now we have the the this

453
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:56,400
gorgeous gift of this essay and the

454
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:58,480
inspiration that that brought in you

455
00:18:02,070 --> 00:18:00,640
know and not only that but in your essay

456
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,080
you also talked about your father who's

457
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:03,600
an engineer

458
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,600
right yeah who had who had another

459
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:07,440
experience um

460
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:08,720
with um

461
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:12,400
seemingly perhaps the the spirit of your

462
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:15,760
dead grandmother is that right

463
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,840
yeah it is jay and and

464
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:19,520
let me say first of all thank you for

465
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:20,799
what you just said i mean i really

466
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:23,600
appreciate it um uh

467
00:18:29,909 --> 00:18:26,880
you know i i'm in addition to being a a

468
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,919
data nut i'm a storyteller so i tried to

469
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:32,000
tell that essay like a story i mean i i

470
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:34,400
wanted it's a pretty arcane subject and

471
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:35,360
it's pretty

472
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:36,960
hard

473
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:38,720
at an entry level to get your mind

474
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:41,200
around consciousness and what it is i

475
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:43,760
mean as i say in the essay no one

476
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:45,679
understands what consciousness is i mean

477
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:47,120
you know science doesn't let alone

478
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:49,200
anyone else so

479
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:50,559
um

480
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:53,440
it i needed to sort of storify it in a

481
00:18:56,789 --> 00:18:55,600
way because that's what i do i'm a i'm a

482
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:56,799
storyteller

483
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:58,400
um but i'm also

484
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:01,360
i am also that data guy as well

485
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:02,080
so

486
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:04,400
yeah i i take it back

487
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:05,280
to

488
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:06,480
sort of my

489
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:10,240
first experience of anomalous stuff in

490
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:13,039
my family which was as you say passed

491
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:15,200
down to me from my father who was an

492
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:16,559
engineer

493
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:17,440
and

494
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:19,039
uh he

495
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:21,919
lived in well he came from a sort of you

496
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:24,480
know quite a big traditional

497
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:26,799
english family living in the southeast

498
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:28,640
of england

499
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:31,600
quite a large rambling house

500
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:33,919
what i didn't say in the essay but which

501
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:34,799
uh

502
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:37,600
is true is that when my parents divorced

503
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:40,000
so my parents divorced when i was about

504
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:41,200
five or six

505
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:44,080
um we moved in with my grandparents so

506
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,840
the grandmother i write about in the

507
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:47,200
essay

508
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:50,000
we moved my sister and i moved in with

509
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:53,120
her and my grandfather and we were there

510
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,880
a couple of years

511
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:56,480
living with them

512
00:20:02,470 --> 00:19:59,360
when my grandmother died

513
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:02,480
now i was so young i was not aware of

514
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:04,000
what was happening in the house at the

515
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,720
time but what was happening was to all

516
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:08,960
intents and purposes my grandmother came

517
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,000
back a few days after she died

518
00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:14,640
um insofar as

519
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,190
consoling my grandfather

520
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:23,760
um started to hear

521
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:26,240
in the attic above his head

522
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:27,360
uh

523
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:30,080
something or someone who was doing

524
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:31,840
exactly what my grandmother had done in

525
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:34,559
life which was when she was uh she was

526
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:36,159
an insomniac so when she couldn't sleep

527
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:37,440
she used to go up to the attic and she

528
00:20:40,870 --> 00:20:39,440
used to sweep it clean and you knew when

529
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:40,880
she was up there because you could hear

530
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:43,440
the clack of the broom against

531
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:46,000
pieces of furniture and the sideboard

532
00:20:50,070 --> 00:20:47,679
and he started to hear this this was two

533
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:50,080
or three days nights after after she

534
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:51,120
died

535
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:52,080
um

536
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,200
and you know he he's a pretty rational

537
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,600
guy so he sort of dismissed it as

538
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,200
grief and emotion you know this is just

539
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:01,520
something i'm imagining i'm tired this

540
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:03,600
is not happening

541
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:06,240
but what he couldn't ignore and what my

542
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:09,039
grandfather couldn't ignore was i think

543
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:11,840
it was maybe three days after she died

544
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:14,000
they were discussing my grandmother's

545
00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:15,440
will

546
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:17,840
and at the table

547
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:19,760
there was a large heavy

548
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:21,280
lamp this is the table where they were

549
00:21:25,750 --> 00:21:24,159
sitting at that lamp lifted into the air

550
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:25,760
over this contentious point of my

551
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:27,679
grandmother's will and started to do a

552
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:30,000
sort of crazy dance about six inches off

553
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:31,919
off the table and then it dropped back

554
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:34,960
onto the uh onto the table with a thump

555
00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:38,480
um now the way my way my dad told it was

556
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:39,520
you know coming from this very

557
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:41,200
traditional family

558
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:42,000
um

559
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:44,480
they just he and my grandfather just

560
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:46,720
looked at each other neither said a

561
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:47,679
thing

562
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:50,159
um and they just sort of let it

563
00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:56,070
my dad being the sort of the practical

564
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:57,679
engineer

565
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,320
would tell this story to um you know

566
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:02,559
anyone who'd listened including us his

567
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:03,919
his kids

568
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:05,520
um and

569
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:07,919
said look you know this thing happened i

570
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:11,120
i saw it it was real as an engineer i

571
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:13,440
want to know where i wanted to know

572
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:15,840
how energy could have been passed from

573
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:17,919
nowhere into that lab how did that

574
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:18,799
happen

575
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:20,640
yeah um and again it was just one of

576
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:22,400
those things that passed into sort of

577
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:25,360
family law in lore

578
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:26,400
as

579
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:31,039
that had happened and i suppose it sort

580
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:32,880
of seeded my

581
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,120
uh interest in this even though it was

582
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:37,520
subliminal and but it did take

583
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,600
my wife's experience that near the

584
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:41,679
shared death experience to really sort

585
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:44,799
of kick-start my research effort which

586
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:47,120
sort of ultimately led into the bix

587
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:49,039
essay

588
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:55,029
that's quite an experience to be quite

589
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:56,480
honest with you and i don't know how you

590
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,280
just oh you just pass it on by

591
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,159
well okay let's just move on

592
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:03,679
nothing let's do that british thing and

593
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:06,240
just let's just move on yeah

594
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:10,080
no yeah yeah um you know but you touched

595
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:11,840
on something um

596
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:14,880
pretty great and it reminds me of you

597
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:17,600
know another part of your essay is

598
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:19,679
pretty much how most of

599
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:22,799
um space and you know everything

600
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:23,760
is

601
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:28,880
like um dark energy or or even dark

602
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:30,000
matter

603
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:31,600
um in

604
00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:33,520
you know why do you think it is that you

605
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:37,440
know as humans we put so much emphasis

606
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:40,240
on the small percentage that is

607
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:42,640
available to us

608
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:45,279
versus that larger

609
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:48,880
you know category of things we don't put

610
00:23:56,230 --> 00:23:53,669
well

611
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:56,240
that's a really good question um it

612
00:24:02,070 --> 00:23:59,440
speaks i think to sort of the hegemony

613
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:02,080
of science over the past two or three

614
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:03,600
hundred years

615
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:05,919
very rationally driven science and i get

616
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:08,159
that i come from that background i come

617
00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:11,760
from that community i was a

618
00:24:15,669 --> 00:24:13,840
nuts and bolts driven technology

619
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:15,679
journalist for a long time so i

620
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,279
understand that i was steeped in it

621
00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:19,440
myself for a very long time

622
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:21,440
to a degree i still am

623
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:22,559
um

624
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:23,600
but

625
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,720
i think

626
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:27,200
what it has done

627
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:30,480
uh you know since the time of sir isaac

628
00:24:37,029 --> 00:24:34,240
newton and galileo and you know those

629
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,039
enlightened scientists who passed down

630
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:39,760
some great science to us uh

631
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:42,000
for the law have done for the past 300

632
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:43,039
years

633
00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:44,559
is that we have

634
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:46,240
most of us if not all of us have just

635
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:48,880
come to rely on science as

636
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:51,039
it is handed to us as the arbiter of

637
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:52,799
reality and truth

638
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:54,080
um

639
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:57,120
but what i think science has done

640
00:25:02,710 --> 00:24:58,640
in that period

641
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:02,720
is to uh a become very siloed scientists

642
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:04,960
tend to stick to their own disciplines

643
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:08,640
uh and b to be pretty dogmatic frankly

644
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:11,039
about what they what their data tells

645
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:11,919
them

646
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:14,799
and to be fairly unforgiving to others

647
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:17,679
who come to them with new ideas

648
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:20,720
and new theories and if that can't be

649
00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:22,640
stood up in the traditional scientific

650
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:24,840
way which is to have a theory

651
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:27,840
substantiated by an experiment to then

652
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:28,880
become

653
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:32,240
uh enshrined in new scientific law

654
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:35,600
then it's just simply thrown out yeah um

655
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:37,279
as i say in my essay

656
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:38,400
you know what happened to good

657
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,159
old-fashioned curiosity you know

658
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:42,640
curiosity is what

659
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:45,200
should rightly drive all of us and if

660
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:48,320
your curiosity is killed at the gate

661
00:25:55,269 --> 00:25:52,000
by a science that says um you can't

662
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:55,279
bring that curiosity into my laboratory

663
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:58,080
or you can't bring that curiosity

664
00:26:02,789 --> 00:25:59,679
to me as a

665
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:02,799
an idea that can be explored through

666
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:05,440
the mainstream of of science

667
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,000
um i don't you know i don't know what

668
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:10,720
happened to that science along the way

669
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,600
that to me is not what science is about

670
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:15,520
science is about honoring what should be

671
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:18,480
about honoring that curiosity and that

672
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:20,880
in part as you say uh

673
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:22,000
both of you

674
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:24,960
is what this essay was about it's saying

675
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:26,480
come on let's

676
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,840
let's recalibrate science to incorporate

677
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:31,440
that curiosity

678
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:32,400
and

679
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:33,760
let's find

680
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:38,720
the world because it is infinitely more

681
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:40,000
complex

682
00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:42,960
um than the reality that we are

683
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:45,600
sort of traditionally presented with

684
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,640
yeah

685
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:48,640
absolutely it gets back to a common

686
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:52,080
frustration of uh within our field uh i

687
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:53,360
i just heard

688
00:26:56,789 --> 00:26:54,559
um

689
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,799
the canadian writer jf martel speaking

690
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:58,640
about this the other day kind of

691
00:27:02,230 --> 00:26:59,520
you know

692
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:02,240
um complaining about the

693
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:04,799
science versus scientism you know sorry

694
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:06,640
that's jersey city i'm in jersey city

695
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:09,120
that's that's the sound of jersey city a

696
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:10,799
gift unto you

697
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:13,120
uh there's an emergency happening it's

698
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:14,799
somewhere on the east side

699
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:17,440
of the tv that's for real yeah no it's

700
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:19,440
quite real so

701
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:21,679
so but within your essay you know you're

702
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:24,320
talking about in in uh you quote john

703
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:27,760
archibald archibald wheeler um saying in

704
00:27:32,389 --> 00:27:29,840
any field find the strangest thing and

705
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:32,399
then explore it right and

706
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:33,760
one thing that i think is deeply

707
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:36,159
courageous within this essay is that you

708
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:38,480
realize okay if i'm going to

709
00:27:43,269 --> 00:27:41,360
explore the idea of of what's the best

710
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:43,279
evidence for consciousness

711
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:46,000
surviving physical deaths first of all

712
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,320
we have to establish what is this

713
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:50,960
reality that we find ourselves in right

714
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:53,679
you had to say like what is not not only

715
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,600
like what is consciousness to begin with

716
00:28:00,310 --> 00:27:57,760
which is an age-old puzzle but where are

717
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:00,320
we like like what is this realm that

718
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:03,600
we're in and it's and if and and

719
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:06,000
realizing that surviving physical death

720
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:08,000
means that we have to establish where we

721
00:28:14,870 --> 00:28:10,720
are and where we aren't

722
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:14,880
in a way um which i think is and and so

723
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:16,960
maybe that's an maybe that's a way as an

724
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:19,760
entry point into the essay itself more

725
00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:22,000
in terms of where you were going with it

726
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:23,919
and saying like how

727
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:26,240
at what point did you oh you know open

728
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:26,960
up

729
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:29,200
your your computer and realize like oh

730
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:32,159
my god like there's so much to establish

731
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:33,039
to

732
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,360
doing here

733
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:39,520
yeah well that's

734
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:40,720
that's really

735
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:43,440
true jay and actually you hit on you

736
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:46,640
know what i would probably call the

737
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:48,880
inflection point of the essay you know

738
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:50,080
which is

739
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:51,120
um

740
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:54,320
sure the essay was about the survival

741
00:29:02,230 --> 00:28:58,080
of consciousness after permanent bodily

742
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,240
death and and proof of that um you know

743
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:04,080
proof that would pass muster in a court

744
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:05,760
of law i mean that was what we were

745
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:09,200
asked by the bigelow judges to present

746
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:10,159
on

747
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:10,960
but

748
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,880
you know yeah in the midst of all of

749
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:15,120
that i mean or rather sort of before you

750
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:16,720
get to that piece

751
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:18,960
you have to establish

752
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:21,440
the reality as it is presented to us in

753
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:23,440
the first place um the reality that we

754
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:24,880
have come to accept

755
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:26,720
and perhaps an acknowledgement that

756
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:29,120
there is there are deeper realities you

757
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:30,000
know

758
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:32,000
depth planes to existence that we are

759
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:34,720
unaware of that go beyond our five

760
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:37,200
senses so it was really that which i

761
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,720
wanted to establish before i got into

762
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:42,720
um the matter of

763
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:45,440
consciousness is survival post-death uh

764
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:47,760
and and i think i call it in the essay

765
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:50,559
the interface it is you know our

766
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:54,080
interface with reality is ill-understood

767
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:55,360
i mean

768
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:57,279
mainstream science perhaps might like to

769
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:59,200
present it as well understood but the

770
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,799
truth is it's not

771
00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:02,799
the um

772
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,720
the way that we

773
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:06,240
see the world

774
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:08,640
might be understood in the sense of you

775
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:09,840
know light

776
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:13,120
bouncing off an object entering the eye

777
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,120
uh um

778
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:17,360
collecting you know against the retina

779
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:19,120
all of that yes you know that is well

780
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,559
understood by

781
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:22,799
science but the way that the mind

782
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:24,159
interprets

783
00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:27,360
the data that comes to it is certainly

784
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:30,240
not and as i say in the essay you know

785
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:31,840
um

786
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:34,399
yet the brain does a certain amount of

787
00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:37,360
that sense sensor fusion in fact does a

788
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:40,000
great deal about sensor fusion itself

789
00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:41,200
um

790
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:42,080
and

791
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:44,799
presents it to us in a way that we

792
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:47,360
can assimilate and understand

793
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:48,480
but it's

794
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:50,640
there's more to it than that because the

795
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:52,080
the the

796
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:54,559
the brain is not the mind the mind is

797
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:57,919
something different the mind goes beyond

798
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:59,039
the brain

799
00:31:01,430 --> 00:31:00,399
and gives us

800
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:01,440
our

801
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:03,600
interpretation of reality

802
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:06,080
uh so i i wanted to make that

803
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:09,039
distinction first of all and to say

804
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,960
there you know

805
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:13,440
what is that interface on which we

806
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:14,640
interpret

807
00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:15,600
uh

808
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:20,240
reality um how we gain our perception

809
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:22,799
and to do that i went to

810
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:26,240
um a guy called professor don hoffman

811
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:27,200
who

812
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:30,840
describes a a very interesting model of

813
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:34,640
reality which um talks about

814
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:36,320
uh our

815
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,159
perception of reality in much the same

816
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:40,559
way that i interpret icons on a computer

817
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:41,519
screen

818
00:31:44,830 --> 00:31:43,279
um you know he says

819
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:44,840
in order to

820
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:50,000
reality we sort of

821
00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:52,000
essentially have a relationship with the

822
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:54,880
icons on our computer screen

823
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:56,640
and there are an infinite number of

824
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,120
those icons and they cover anything that

825
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,360
you can think of from you know the way

826
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:03,840
we uh eat and sleep to the way we

827
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:06,559
procreate and goodness knows what

828
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:07,600
um

829
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:11,519
and but you know his point is is that

830
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:14,480
evolution has given us

831
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:17,600
all the reality that we can handle

832
00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:19,360
and know more

833
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:22,640
it's all to do with survival um you know

834
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:24,240
have we

835
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,159
hundred maybe thousand years

836
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:32,399
uh a psychic ability to survive well

837
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:35,519
probably not no we you know we

838
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:37,440
that might have been hardwired in us to

839
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,919
begin with but it's been ditched by us

840
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:41,679
now because

841
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:43,760
you don't need to be overloaded with

842
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:44,559
that

843
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,960
psychic data as you go about your daily

844
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:49,440
life it would simply it would give you a

845
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:50,559
meltdown

846
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:52,080
that

847
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:54,159
wouldn't enable you to function in

848
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:56,640
today's you know quotes real civilized

849
00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:00,080
world so that interface for me

850
00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:02,000
was important

851
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:04,559
as a foundational

852
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:07,519
thing to sort of understand before i

853
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,279
got into the the matter of survivals uh

854
00:33:15,509 --> 00:33:13,440
of consciousness is survival and i'm not

855
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:15,519
saying i do understand the interface but

856
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:17,919
i don't um it is

857
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:20,559
still an infinitely mysterious thing but

858
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:23,279
what i would love science mainstream

859
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:26,880
science to have a go at is is to get to

860
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:29,120
understand that interface because if you

861
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:30,960
understand the interface you are going

862
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:33,919
to understand a whole lot more about

863
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:36,880
reality and existence than you know you

864
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:38,559
we do at the moment

865
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:40,080
that's a that's a great point and you

866
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:41,840
know the i keep getting visuals in my

867
00:33:45,669 --> 00:33:42,799
head of

868
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:45,679
uh almost you know humans and us being

869
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,360
here and working on the things we're

870
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:49,519
working on um in science and

871
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,279
understanding you know our earth

872
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:56,000
as you know little stepping stones to

873
00:34:01,750 --> 00:33:58,960
get to the point to understand things

874
00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:01,760
that are larger because if you are i'm

875
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:03,679
kind of overwhelmed with everything at

876
00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:04,559
once

877
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:06,960
you there's no clear way on where to

878
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:10,159
start right to get to anywhere so you

879
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:11,679
kind of need that structure if you don't

880
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:12,560
mind

881
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:15,839
um i did want to kind of switch topics a

882
00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:16,800
little bit

883
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:19,760
um i was curious to hear what you

884
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:22,800
thought on the passage of um

885
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:26,800
uh senator uh gillibrand's uh amendment

886
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:28,639
uh astro

887
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:30,240
yeah i i obviously these are

888
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:32,320
developments that i've had to catch up

889
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:33,520
with since my

890
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,040
return from from from the states um but

891
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:39,679
i think it's it's it's a great uh it's a

892
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:43,040
great development um i'm delighted by it

893
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:44,480
um

894
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:46,639
obviously we had you know it's been a

895
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:50,879
busy year for uap uh and ufos um

896
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:52,399
we had the

897
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:56,560
uh reports to congress in june from the

898
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:58,240
dni

899
00:35:02,310 --> 00:34:59,680
uh

900
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:02,320
so all the data supposedly you know that

901
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:05,040
the dod and um the

902
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:06,960
the intelligence community has collected

903
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:08,240
on ufos

904
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,480
uh didn't go very far

905
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:13,040
uh uh or didn't go as far as many people

906
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:14,800
would have liked i mean i personally

907
00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:17,359
thought that was uh a

908
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:20,240
significant development in itself in

909
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:23,119
that whilst it didn't

910
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:25,520
openly acknowledge all the weird stuff

911
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:28,400
that we know is you know undeniable at

912
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:31,520
least you know to my satisfaction is

913
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,000
undeniably associated with the ufo

914
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:36,640
phenomenon yeah it did

915
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:38,720
acknowledge it as a real thing you know

916
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:41,119
this is not something that at long last

917
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:42,720
the dod

918
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:43,599
has

919
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:46,079
continued to duck but it's something

920
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:48,079
that it says okay we have a real

921
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:50,560
phenomenon here we just get we just need

922
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:51,280
to

923
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,880
understand what it is

924
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:53,920
so

925
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:56,000
the the the passing

926
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:57,760
of the gila brand

927
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,119
legislation is terrific in my view in

928
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:03,040
that it what it does is

929
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:06,000
is it promises a whole of science

930
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:07,359
approach

931
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:14,400
issue of uap and ufos

932
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:15,359
um

933
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:17,520
that i don't think we would have got

934
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:19,280
nearly from the pentagon

935
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:20,400
um

936
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:23,200
the pentagon has its own interests to

937
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:26,880
protect um i get that i reported on the

938
00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:29,040
defense world for

939
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:32,720
you know in excess of 15 years uh and i

940
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:35,839
traveled uh throughout industry and

941
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:37,760
throughout you know

942
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:40,560
the dod and its departments and i get

943
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:42,560
that culture

944
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:43,440
uh

945
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,880
but it says that it wants to understand

946
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:48,720
you know what it is that it's dealing

947
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,359
with and it won't to be honest simply by

948
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,520
looking through you know the prisms and

949
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:55,440
lenses of its own

950
00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:58,000
departments it has to go outside of that

951
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,240
to bring fresh perspective on it and so

952
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:02,720
i think that you know the latest uh

953
00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:05,520
legislation that's been passed is a

954
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:07,359
really good step on the way towards

955
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:10,640
doing that um and uh you know

956
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:13,119
rightly so i i keep my fingers crossed

957
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:14,960
that it's all gonna move in the right

958
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:16,240
direction

959
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:18,240
yeah i mean it's public which is to me

960
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:19,920
is the difference a lot of people say oh

961
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,520
we've been here they've done studies

962
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:23,520
which is true they have

963
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:25,920
done studies and they have been taking

964
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:27,280
reports

965
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:29,920
you know um basically this entire time

966
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,560
but the whole difference uh now is that

967
00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:33,839
things are

968
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,119
um

969
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:37,280
you know you could even say that's a

970
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:39,839
sense of disclosure is that

971
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:41,920
this past and it's

972
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:44,240
you know it's been told to us what

973
00:37:48,310 --> 00:37:45,920
they're doing and what they're going to

974
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:48,320
do versus hearing about it you know 10

975
00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:49,599
years after

976
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:51,440
having the foia documents to figure

977
00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:54,240
something out you know which you know

978
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:55,920
we'll we'll see how the process goes and

979
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:58,560
if transparency follows but just the

980
00:38:01,510 --> 00:38:00,400
fact that this has happened in the

981
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:01,520
public

982
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:05,119
um is huge don't you think jay or sorry

983
00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:07,440
yeah oh no absolutely something like

984
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,560
that yeah no i was i was not zoning out

985
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:12,320
you can call on me that's absolutely

986
00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:13,839
fine

987
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:15,359
i'm the only one who's allowed to zone

988
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,240
out

989
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:20,960
that's right nick has a little bit of of

990
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:23,440
the jet lag and so uh we'll we'll be

991
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:25,920
mindful of that but yeah i think i i

992
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:27,119
think you're absolutely right and i

993
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:28,000
think that

994
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:29,520
not to um

995
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:31,200
there's a couple elephants in this room

996
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:32,800
though i think that that are interesting

997
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:36,240
a nick you're you're a former um

998
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:38,720
uh defense journalist working for jane's

999
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:40,160
defense weekly

1000
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:43,440
as the aerospace editor as i recall for

1001
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:45,200
close to 18 years

1002
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:48,640
and um you do private consultancy work

1003
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:50,880
um now in terms of and you've

1004
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:52,480
characterized it before as kind of

1005
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:55,520
storifying um you know essentially kind

1006
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:56,800
of building narratives that could be

1007
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:59,280
used as prs from what my understanding

1008
00:39:01,990 --> 00:39:00,960
is and

1009
00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:02,000
and

1010
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,240
it could be reasonably assumed that that

1011
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,480
given your history and given what you do

1012
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:08,560
now there might be some links between

1013
00:39:13,589 --> 00:39:11,680
those two worlds um which which is which

1014
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:13,599
would be totally understandable and then

1015
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:14,880
sean

1016
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:17,119
actually just yesterday or the day

1017
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:18,400
before

1018
00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:20,560
published an article with the liberation

1019
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:22,640
times

1020
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:23,920
where

1021
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:25,839
essentially he was bringing up a lot of

1022
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,320
proof and kind of com ends and doing a

1023
00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:30,960
great job of bringing up the elephant of

1024
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:33,599
the air force the us air force being

1025
00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:35,440
almost completely silent

1026
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:40,079
within this matter of of uap ufo secrecy

1027
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:42,800
and things like that um so

1028
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,200
in that way i i almost want to reverse

1029
00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:47,680
the question back on unto you both in

1030
00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:50,560
terms of you know nick i remember you

1031
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,640
know in doing your research for the hunt

1032
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:54,480
for zero point energy things like that

1033
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:56,640
you spoke with a lot of people

1034
00:40:01,990 --> 00:39:59,359
um on on and probably off the record

1035
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:02,000
from from various defense contractors

1036
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:04,720
things like that

1037
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:06,480
you know one question is

1038
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:07,920
do you think that the

1039
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,309
be more forthcoming in the future with

1040
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:16,560
this with this with this with this new

1041
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:18,640
legislation

1042
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:21,200
and uh i i've got another point but

1043
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:22,560
let's let's just sit with that for a

1044
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:24,240
second

1045
00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:25,680
well

1046
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:27,200
you're you're

1047
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:29,680
you're so right to bring up the absence

1048
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,880
of the air force from the uh june report

1049
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:34,240
to congress

1050
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:36,400
it was such a glaring omission to be

1051
00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:39,280
honest um and

1052
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:42,160
you know the the the report was big on

1053
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:43,440
talking about

1054
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:44,960
the fact that it had really only

1055
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,359
collected data from 2004

1056
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:50,160
it was analyzing data from 2004.

1057
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,760
yeah almost as if the data from before

1058
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:55,760
that wasn't worth looking at

1059
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:58,640
but you know anyone who's ever taken a

1060
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:59,760
look at

1061
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:00,560
the

1062
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:02,480
uap phenomenon

1063
00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:04,319
knows that it you know at least in the

1064
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:13,349
you know the mid-40s certainly

1065
00:41:17,750 --> 00:41:16,640
and to dismiss that section of the data

1066
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:17,760
as

1067
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:19,839
irrelevant

1068
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:23,520
in so many ways was was absurd

1069
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,400
so

1070
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:26,079
uh you know

1071
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:28,160
why do i think the air force was absent

1072
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:31,680
from from the report um well i think

1073
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:33,040
to be

1074
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:36,960
blunt it's because the incursions that

1075
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:40,319
have been recorded uh since the mid

1076
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:43,359
1940s onwards

1077
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:45,040
particularly over areas that are

1078
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:47,760
sensitive militarily that are

1079
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:49,440
nuclear sensitive

1080
00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:52,880
um you know those reports are clear to

1081
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:56,960
my mind um they are uh many fold i mean

1082
00:42:00,150 --> 00:41:59,440
there are hundreds if not thousands of

1083
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:00,160
them

1084
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:02,880
um and they're embarrassing i mean

1085
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:05,040
if you don't know what is over your most

1086
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,200
sensitive military installations

1087
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:09,440
that's uh it's not good

1088
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:10,960
so

1089
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:11,839
that's

1090
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:14,400
clearly at least to my own

1091
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:16,880
to my understanding is why the air force

1092
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:19,040
would have wanted to abduct that issue

1093
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:22,079
um you don't if you don't talk about

1094
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:25,599
that uh trail that that tail going back

1095
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:27,599
to the mid-1940s

1096
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:29,760
then you know you get out of that really

1097
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:30,960
embarrassing

1098
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:34,640
uh area about you know national air

1099
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:36,800
national security airspace security and

1100
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:39,599
all the rest of it i get that

1101
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:40,800
um

1102
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:43,119
so that is why i think that is why this

1103
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:45,200
latest legislation is again really

1104
00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:46,720
important because

1105
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:49,280
it's you know it's it would be somewhat

1106
00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:50,640
akin to

1107
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:52,880
entrusting um

1108
00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:54,640
an alcoholic you know with a kind of

1109
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,920
liquor store if you were to

1110
00:43:02,150 --> 00:42:59,040
give

1111
00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:02,160
sections of the dod the responsibility

1112
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:03,040
of

1113
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:06,400
accounting for what is going on in

1114
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:07,520
uh

1115
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:10,640
restricted airspace

1116
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,480
you need to open it up you need to open

1117
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:14,720
it up to as we said earlier to an all of

1118
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:15,920
science

1119
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:18,319
uh perspective on what is happening here

1120
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:20,960
and and not just i mean i get the bit

1121
00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:22,319
about

1122
00:43:26,470 --> 00:43:25,200
national security i understand that

1123
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:26,480
i really do

1124
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:28,319
but um

1125
00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:30,960
this is a phenomenon that the dod has

1126
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:33,200
said it wants to understand

1127
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:34,079
and

1128
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:36,880
uh it will never do that if it only

1129
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:39,599
consults from within itself on what that

1130
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:42,480
is it it needs to be able to open it out

1131
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,280
and

1132
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:45,119
so that is what this latest legislation

1133
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:46,720
has done and that's a that's a good

1134
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:47,839
thing

1135
00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:49,680
yeah um

1136
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:50,640
you know

1137
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:52,720
there's no way to disagree with you you

1138
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:55,920
know um that you know as i i've only

1139
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,240
been researching this for for for six

1140
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,160
months and and to me it's quite

1141
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:02,319
astonishing and it didn't take me very

1142
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:05,280
long to find documents that uh

1143
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:08,079
specifically say from the air force or

1144
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,680
the cia about

1145
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,760
these phenomenon

1146
00:44:17,430 --> 00:44:14,800
um

1147
00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:17,440
you know impeding on their strategic

1148
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:21,520
defense areas and airspace and even

1149
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:23,280
mentioning things that have to do with

1150
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:26,880
nuclear and atomic installations in 1950

1151
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:28,319
or 52

1152
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,640
like so it's been going on for that long

1153
00:44:35,829 --> 00:44:32,800
also documents from that same period

1154
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:35,839
that say we have numerous uh reports of

1155
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:39,040
visual and radar contacts visual and

1156
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:41,920
radar contacts and there's a plethora of

1157
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,680
evidence of them looking at everything

1158
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:44,960
from chaff

1159
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:46,880
to inversions

1160
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:48,480
to um

1161
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:52,000
you know um how can a meteorite tail

1162
00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:54,800
set off radar uh radar interfering with

1163
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:57,839
each other all sorts of stuff they've

1164
00:45:01,750 --> 00:44:58,960
looked into

1165
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:01,760
and here we are and it's still going on

1166
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:02,480
so

1167
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:07,280
air force is silent is because they

1168
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:10,079
would probably most likely have to

1169
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:12,720
address all those efforts that left of

1170
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:13,680
nowhere

1171
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:14,960
um

1172
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:16,720
you know which in turn

1173
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:18,079
you know made them not want to be

1174
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:20,640
transparent if you were to ask me

1175
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,200
but i think um you know

1176
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:25,119
hopefully this amendment helps with that

1177
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:27,119
process and i think

1178
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:30,400
um if you know i i deal with it like

1179
00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:31,599
i look at it like people in

1180
00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:33,920
relationships too right if you screw up

1181
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:35,760
or if you don't know anything that's

1182
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:38,400
that's not a mistake you know that's if

1183
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:39,599
you say

1184
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:41,760
what you've done and you know you're

1185
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:43,680
sorry and you're gonna try to do better

1186
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,400
like if i don't know something i'm not

1187
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:49,200
gonna give you a bs answer not respond

1188
00:45:53,589 --> 00:45:51,599
i'm gonna show humility and tell you

1189
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:53,599
i don't know i would love to know you

1190
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:55,440
know and that's if they would just treat

1191
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:56,640
it that way

1192
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:00,240
like we've tried and we don't know and

1193
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:03,200
we're still trying and working on it um

1194
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:04,960
i think there would be a lot more

1195
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:08,319
respect given and and hopefully you know

1196
00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:10,560
that happens at some point um but you

1197
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:13,359
know dr loeb says this all the time uh

1198
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,400
ego can be the root of of all evil

1199
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:18,480
and in this case i think that that might

1200
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:20,800
be true as well the ego

1201
00:46:26,470 --> 00:46:24,160
um holds them back from admissions

1202
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:26,480
um of not knowing

1203
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:27,359
you know

1204
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:30,400
that's a it's a really good point that

1205
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:32,640
sean that you know

1206
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,720
the ego is at the heart of all of this

1207
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:36,880
it is central to all of this you know

1208
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:39,280
and and you know i've been

1209
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:41,520
again long enough or had been long

1210
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:44,079
enough in that journalism game to know

1211
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:44,960
that

1212
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:47,040
you know there are a number of reasons

1213
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:49,680
why you classify stuff you know one is

1214
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:51,680
is because it is genuinely sensitive you

1215
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:52,800
know the information that you are

1216
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:54,960
protecting that's point one

1217
00:46:59,589 --> 00:46:56,880
but you know there is another aspect to

1218
00:47:02,470 --> 00:46:59,599
it as well which is you can

1219
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,480
goof in the in the classified world

1220
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:04,079
and

1221
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:08,960
when it's hidden behind a veil of

1222
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:11,680
secrecy you know a lot of those mistakes

1223
00:47:15,190 --> 00:47:12,640
stay

1224
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:15,200
hidden from public view and that's a

1225
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:18,079
pretty convenient what can be a very

1226
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:22,160
convenient place to operate in sure um

1227
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:25,440
this is going to be jarring for those in

1228
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:27,280
the defense world i understand that i

1229
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:28,160
get it

1230
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:29,680
it it it is

1231
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,040
you know

1232
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:33,760
it is a sector that does not like to be

1233
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:35,920
dragged into the glare of

1234
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:36,800
um

1235
00:47:40,150 --> 00:47:39,040
public accountability always

1236
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:40,160
but

1237
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:41,280
again

1238
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,319
this is

1239
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:44,559
truly such a

1240
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,839
uh

1241
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:47,760
a sort of pioneering

1242
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:49,760
paradigm shattering

1243
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,119
um

1244
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,680
thing that we are looking at here the

1245
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:55,280
uap phenomenon

1246
00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:56,160
that

1247
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:00,319
again it requires people to be brave

1248
00:48:04,829 --> 00:48:03,280
uh to dispense with the ego and i'm

1249
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:04,839
talking about you know

1250
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:08,240
collective uh government ego here

1251
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:09,200
and just

1252
00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:11,520
actually put your hands up and go we

1253
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:13,920
have a we have a situation here

1254
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,720
um it is genuinely perplexing

1255
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:18,640
uh and we need the best and brightest

1256
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:20,400
minds on the planet

1257
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:21,440
on it

1258
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:24,480
wherever those mines come from

1259
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:27,520
and i you know i'm cautiously hopeful i

1260
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:29,599
think that again you know getting back

1261
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,480
to

1262
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:31,920
the recent

1263
00:48:36,309 --> 00:48:34,960
legislation i think we're moving

1264
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:36,319
slowly

1265
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:37,920
in the right direction

1266
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:38,800
yeah

1267
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:41,040
i would agree with you

1268
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:45,040
yeah i think and removing the ego is is

1269
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:46,559
is a great

1270
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:48,480
point to

1271
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,810
to

1272
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:50,319
[Music]

1273
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:52,720
transition a bit in terms of like how

1274
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:55,440
much within your essay to bring it back

1275
00:48:59,190 --> 00:48:58,079
a little bit to the source of this uh

1276
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:59,200
interview

1277
00:49:02,150 --> 00:49:00,640
you know they

1278
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:02,160
you

1279
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:04,960
worked a lot with ingo swan right before

1280
00:49:11,589 --> 00:49:08,400
before he passed uh you worked on

1281
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:11,599
bringing some of his his key masterworks

1282
00:49:14,790 --> 00:49:13,680
to light and and being published a few

1283
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:14,800
years ago

1284
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:17,119
and you do a great job within the essay

1285
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:19,839
of of putting a lot together from from

1286
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:22,079
as sean mentioned earlier dark matter

1287
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:23,599
dark energy

1288
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:26,160
that we are only aware of

1289
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:28,800
five percent maybe of the total energy

1290
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:31,200
according to many scientists

1291
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:33,760
we're only aware of five percent of the

1292
00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:35,440
quote unquote matter

1293
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:38,240
that and energy that may exist and in

1294
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:41,119
fact that the matter that we perceive

1295
00:49:46,309 --> 00:49:43,440
we only perceive it because it's

1296
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:46,319
it's it's vibrating and spinning

1297
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:48,960
in like in a way that we recognize that

1298
00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:51,520
is generally close to to the way that

1299
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:53,920
our atoms our molecules everything kind

1300
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:56,079
of spins and vibrates at

1301
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:58,720
and so you know this gets uncomfortably

1302
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:01,920
close for some within the defense within

1303
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:04,800
the nuts and bolts realm um to

1304
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:05,680
to

1305
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:07,760
the kind of wackier side of

1306
00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:10,240
consciousness um when people talk about

1307
00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:12,160
vibration when people talk about

1308
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:16,000
frequency but in fact you know and and

1309
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:18,960
for years many researchers have kind of

1310
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:20,960
have have have

1311
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:22,240
discarded

1312
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,960
a lot of experiencer accounts and things

1313
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:26,880
like this because people mention things

1314
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,240
like light and energy and vibration or

1315
00:50:34,549 --> 00:50:32,240
and things like that whereas if you

1316
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:34,559
actually look at the science

1317
00:50:37,589 --> 00:50:36,480
in terms of what we actually see that's

1318
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:37,599
just

1319
00:50:41,829 --> 00:50:39,520
the the fundamental truth of what's

1320
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:41,839
happening here at least in terms of our

1321
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:44,160
perception right and so one thing that

1322
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:46,400
you bring up like towards because we're

1323
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,160
getting towards the end of the hour and

1324
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:50,319
i want to just get towards the end of

1325
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:53,520
the essay one of your key points is that

1326
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:54,400
that

1327
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:56,319
it looks like

1328
00:51:02,950 --> 00:50:59,920
we may be existing with as kind of a

1329
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:02,960
bubble or a pocket within a much

1330
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:04,160
wider

1331
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:05,599
uh

1332
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:09,520
universe or a unified kind of field that

1333
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:10,400
might

1334
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:14,720
intermediary layers in there as well

1335
00:51:17,910 --> 00:51:16,640
that we can't even necessarily think of

1336
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:17,920
as space

1337
00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:18,640
but

1338
00:51:22,230 --> 00:51:20,319
that that there's

1339
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:22,240
maybe overlaying dimensions and things

1340
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:25,599
like that and not not just that but when

1341
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:28,160
you talk about uaps ufos

1342
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:31,280
uh these inter penetrating intelligences

1343
00:51:35,829 --> 00:51:33,599
beings and things like that you refer to

1344
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:35,839
them as rogue icons and i think that

1345
00:51:38,390 --> 00:51:37,200
that's a really

1346
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:38,400
wonderful

1347
00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:39,359
term

1348
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:41,119
for people to be able to use

1349
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,200
so i'm just kind of throwing that out

1350
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:45,359
there as as something to touch upon

1351
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:48,960
before before we get out of here today

1352
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:52,160
uh yeah okay so uh uh

1353
00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:54,160
a great deal to uh

1354
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:56,559
to unpack then let me see yes i'm sorry

1355
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:57,760
about that

1356
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:00,640
moving so the first point is about dark

1357
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:03,599
energy dark matter so i bring that up in

1358
00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:04,720
the essay

1359
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:06,319
um

1360
00:52:11,829 --> 00:52:09,119
really to make the point that you know

1361
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:11,839
dark energy and dark matter as a sort of

1362
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:12,640
thing

1363
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:13,680
have been

1364
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:16,400
known about or acknowledged for about

1365
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:19,200
in excess of 25 years

1366
00:52:24,309 --> 00:52:21,760
and you know an accelerating

1367
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:24,319
uh expanding universe was not what was

1368
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:26,480
predicted by all the models

1369
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:28,319
um which

1370
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:30,960
uh required science to put in a kind of

1371
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:33,119
scientific fudge if you like

1372
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:35,920
uh the the the existence of dark matter

1373
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:38,960
and dark energy simply says we don't

1374
00:52:42,549 --> 00:52:41,280
know what is causing this expansion

1375
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:42,559
um

1376
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:44,800
we're going to call it dark energy and

1377
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,040
there's dark matter in there as well

1378
00:52:51,109 --> 00:52:49,200
uh but actually

1379
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:51,119
you know if you follow that to its

1380
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:52,480
conclusion

1381
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:54,720
what you are acknowledging is that only

1382
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,280
five percent of the universe is made of

1383
00:53:02,549 --> 00:52:59,359
stuff that you understand

1384
00:53:04,630 --> 00:53:02,559
95 of it is not now

1385
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:04,640
i bring that up in the essay because

1386
00:53:08,870 --> 00:53:06,400
science has no problem acknowledging

1387
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:08,880
that it is that's okay they'll talk

1388
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,480
about dark energy and dark matter till

1389
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:12,960
the cows come home and that's fine

1390
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:15,839
so why won't science then talk about

1391
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:18,000
another thing that is

1392
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:19,520
not understood

1393
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:21,760
which is the paranormal

1394
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:23,920
it hates to talk about the paranormal

1395
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:25,440
because

1396
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:27,440
well why

1397
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,200
it talks about dark energy and dark

1398
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:31,440
matter those aren't understood but the

1399
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:33,359
paranormal is totally taboo and off

1400
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:34,640
limits

1401
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:38,880
my point is is that if we're going to

1402
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:43,599
begin to understand some of the uh

1403
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:46,160
intricacies of consciousness

1404
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:49,440
we can only really begin to understand

1405
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:52,800
it by looking at its anomalies and those

1406
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,680
anomalies you know getting back to uh to

1407
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:57,280
the to the wheeler quotes that you were

1408
00:54:01,910 --> 00:53:58,559
talking about

1409
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:01,920
earlier jay you know um

1410
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:04,559
those are the strangest thing when it

1411
00:54:07,109 --> 00:54:05,760
comes to

1412
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:07,119
uh

1413
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:09,680
consciousness research so take a look at

1414
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:11,280
them pick them off

1415
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:12,160
and

1416
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:14,000
you know ask yourself what is causing

1417
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:16,640
them you know and those anomalies are

1418
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:19,680
they are the rogue icons they are ghosts

1419
00:54:24,230 --> 00:54:22,240
they are ufos they are near death

1420
00:54:25,860 --> 00:54:24,240
experiences out-of-body experiences

1421
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:25,870
remote viewing um

1422
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:27,280
[Music]

1423
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:29,440
they are

1424
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:31,680
the things that allow shamans to go and

1425
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:33,440
do their thing and channel is to do

1426
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:35,680
their thing but they are not by and

1427
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:38,079
large looked at by mainstream science

1428
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:39,359
yet to me

1429
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:41,760
those were the sort of the rogue icons

1430
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:44,880
the clues on the edges of consciousness

1431
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:47,440
that allow us to get into

1432
00:54:50,050 --> 00:54:49,599
the heart of the matter or at least to

1433
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:50,060
begin

1434
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:51,520
[Music]

1435
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:54,240
exploring its its periphery

1436
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:55,119
um

1437
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:56,319
so

1438
00:54:59,910 --> 00:54:58,400
that leads me on to

1439
00:55:02,470 --> 00:54:59,920
ingo um

1440
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:02,480
whom you also mentioned

1441
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:04,240
ingo for those who don't know

1442
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:07,280
was um again one of the pioneers and

1443
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:09,040
founders of the whole remote viewing

1444
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:10,319
program

1445
00:55:15,109 --> 00:55:12,640
and he was a psychic who worked

1446
00:55:17,349 --> 00:55:15,119
alongside hal pudov and russell targ on

1447
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:17,359
the remote viewing program and

1448
00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:19,680
more than that actually helped develop

1449
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:22,799
the protocols of remote viewing you know

1450
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:27,280
basically you hand a remote viewer a a a

1451
00:55:32,789 --> 00:55:30,319
an invisible coordinate and something

1452
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:32,799
slows their consciousness to whatever it

1453
00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:34,640
is that is the target of interest and

1454
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:36,240
then they bring back

1455
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:37,040
uh

1456
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:39,680
the data it's a bit hit and miss but

1457
00:55:42,549 --> 00:55:40,720
it's

1458
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:42,559
certainly a lot better than chance and

1459
00:55:47,589 --> 00:55:44,240
some remote viewers were really really

1460
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:47,599
good at it and you know my old mantra as

1461
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:48,960
a journo was

1462
00:55:53,829 --> 00:55:50,880
follow the money like uh woodward and

1463
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:53,839
bernstein and you you don't fund

1464
00:55:58,230 --> 00:55:55,920
something year on year for 18 years

1465
00:55:59,910 --> 00:55:58,240
which is pretty what much what um the

1466
00:56:02,069 --> 00:55:59,920
defense and intelligence communities did

1467
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:02,079
with remote viewing unless it was giving

1468
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,319
you some payback so you know to my mind

1469
00:56:10,590 --> 00:56:08,880
it was doing something right

1470
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:10,600
ingo says

1471
00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:12,240
[Music]

1472
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:14,400
he he he comes up with a

1473
00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:16,640
very powerful story which i use in the

1474
00:56:20,950 --> 00:56:19,520
essay to do with um

1475
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:20,960
uh

1476
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:22,960
experiences who

1477
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,200
were received anomalous data before the

1478
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:27,359
titanic um sunk

1479
00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:30,880
uh in particular there was an author

1480
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:31,920
who

1481
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:35,040
came up with a book called the wreck of

1482
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:36,480
the titan

1483
00:56:42,870 --> 00:56:39,680
i think it was 12 years maybe 14 years

1484
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,880
fully before the titanic sank and it's

1485
00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:44,720
the wreck of the titan is well worth

1486
00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:46,079
having a look at

1487
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:49,599
um it basically in fiction form presents

1488
00:56:54,309 --> 00:56:52,000
exactly what happened to the titanic

1489
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:54,319
um the dimensions of the ship are almost

1490
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:55,440
the same

1491
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:57,200
the number of casualties of the shade

1492
00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:00,079
the same it hit an iceberg etc etc and

1493
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:03,280
through that story ingo says

1494
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:06,000
there has to be some leakage

1495
00:57:09,270 --> 00:57:07,040
from

1496
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:09,280
the deeper reality

1497
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,000
in which the titanic disaster was

1498
00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:14,559
forming ahead of this guy writing the

1499
00:57:18,789 --> 00:57:17,200
story and all of these other people

1500
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:18,799
picking up these

1501
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:20,960
uh warnings these four warnings about

1502
00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:22,559
what was to happen

1503
00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:25,920
that leakage must be happening from

1504
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:26,960
realms

1505
00:57:31,109 --> 00:57:29,680
and domains we don't see

1506
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:31,119
in other words you know this is where

1507
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:32,640
the interface is

1508
00:57:36,789 --> 00:57:34,720
our interface with reality only allows

1509
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:36,799
us to see certain things and we get

1510
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:38,960
those through the five senses

1511
00:57:42,549 --> 00:57:41,200
but there was so much data coming

1512
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:42,559
through

1513
00:57:45,990 --> 00:57:44,000
from that

1514
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:46,000
titanic situation

1515
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:47,680
that ingo

1516
00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:50,400
asks us to

1517
00:57:55,270 --> 00:57:52,160
accept that

1518
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:55,280
those deeper realms are real that there

1519
00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:56,559
has to be

1520
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:57,760
something

1521
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:58,559
uh

1522
00:58:01,190 --> 00:58:00,240
to them which

1523
00:58:02,309 --> 00:58:01,200
in us

1524
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:02,319
in effect

1525
00:58:05,349 --> 00:58:03,520
helps to

1526
00:58:08,309 --> 00:58:05,359
shape and form our

1527
00:58:10,630 --> 00:58:08,319
3d four-dimensional physical reality

1528
00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:10,640
before it manifests as

1529
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:11,680
3d

1530
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:15,599
um

1531
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:16,480
and and

1532
00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:22,400
know i did i didn't know him well but we

1533
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:24,720
met on a number of occasions and

1534
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:26,880
um you know even

1535
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:28,960
worked together briefly you know it

1536
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:30,960
helped me to

1537
00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:33,520
trust in that data you know i'm removing

1538
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:34,319
the

1539
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:36,720
secondary and tertiary sources i'm

1540
00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:38,720
working directly with

1541
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:40,880
the uh the individuals themselves it's a

1542
00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:42,880
little bit like you know the testimony

1543
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:44,559
that came down through my wife and and

1544
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:45,760
from my dad

1545
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:49,599
um it helped me to know that it was real

1546
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:52,240
so uh a long-winded way of perhaps

1547
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:55,040
attacking your uh your question there

1548
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:56,720
jay but um

1549
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:59,440
yeah uh certainly you know

1550
00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:01,359
having known ingo it was a it was a

1551
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:02,400
great

1552
00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:04,160
experience for me and actually having

1553
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:06,400
worked on a on a book of his as well

1554
00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:07,920
because um

1555
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:10,319
after he died ingo left behind a number

1556
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:12,880
of well i've had an archive of material

1557
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:15,200
but in amongst that archive his family

1558
00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:16,240
and i

1559
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:18,799
found two of these lost manuscripts of

1560
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:20,319
his from which i've just taken the

1561
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:22,799
titanic story and that's bound into a

1562
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:24,160
volume called resurrecting the

1563
00:59:28,950 --> 00:59:26,480
mysterious which was published last year

1564
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:28,960
and i just happened to write the preface

1565
00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:30,400
and the afterword

1566
00:59:33,910 --> 00:59:32,240
about it but it's you know if you want

1567
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:33,920
an insight into

1568
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:37,520
a real psychics mind it's a good read

1569
00:59:40,630 --> 00:59:38,319
wow

1570
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:40,640
hey i just wanted to thank you so much

1571
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:42,960
for uh donating your time to talk with

1572
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:45,520
us today i know uh you have a lot on

1573
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:48,240
your plate and you got the jet lag

1574
00:59:50,710 --> 00:59:49,200
um

1575
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:50,720
well i just hope i made some sense

1576
00:59:53,430 --> 00:59:51,680
that's all

1577
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:53,440
i don't know yet i'll have to re-watch

1578
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,599
so i'm just kidding

1579
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:57,520
of course you did

1580
01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:00,799
you're one of my favorite people um and

1581
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:03,680
i really love your unique background um

1582
01:00:08,309 --> 01:00:05,680
it's i think you know talking about

1583
01:00:11,349 --> 01:00:08,319
consciousness and all and all of that is

1584
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:11,359
even more powerful when it comes um from

1585
01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:14,400
somebody with such a nuts and bolts in

1586
01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:16,880
defense background it makes it more

1587
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:19,119
impactful but you know especially to

1588
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:21,680
people that you know maybe can't start

1589
01:00:26,549 --> 01:00:24,240
or haven't start thinking about that yet

1590
01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:26,559
you know it's it's almost like lead by

1591
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:29,359
example type of stuff you know like if i

1592
01:00:34,309 --> 01:00:31,040
can think about it you can think about

1593
01:00:36,309 --> 01:00:34,319
it so i really appreciate that so and

1594
01:00:38,549 --> 01:00:36,319
thank you for for doing this show

1595
01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:38,559
yeah i appreciate the time i've really

1596
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:41,440
enjoyed again uh talking to you both so

1597
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:44,400
thanks for having me on yeah

1598
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:47,839
um you take care um get some sleep we'll

1599
01:00:52,789 --> 01:00:49,520
see you next time it's certainly

1600
01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:52,799
wonderful roger that in the sleep

1601
01:00:58,230 --> 01:00:54,559
thank you so much nick

1602
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:02,309
all right uh we had a great time here

1603
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:04,720
with uh mr cook

1604
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:07,359
that was beautiful yeah what a great guy

1605
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:08,319
um

1606
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:10,640
and uh boy that was a pleasure you know

1607
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:13,200
i we we we booked him even before we

1608
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,599
each read the essay and

1609
01:01:19,109 --> 01:01:18,000
you know it's been a it's been a

1610
01:01:44,069 --> 01:01:19,119
i

1611
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:44,079
helps um

1612
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:45,520
not even paint a picture of

1613
01:01:49,270 --> 01:01:47,760
understanding as much as just further

1614
01:01:51,910 --> 01:01:49,280
validation

1615
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:51,920
of of you know the things i think about

1616
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:54,000
and what i work for you know those are

1617
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:56,000
all on the right track you know which is

1618
01:02:00,470 --> 01:01:57,280
which is huge

1619
01:02:02,870 --> 01:02:00,480
so 100 you know from from the

1620
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:02,880
from the kind of grand finale of as i

1621
01:02:07,829 --> 01:02:05,760
say uh nick says the testimony of our

1622
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:07,839
witnesses along with a growing body of

1623
01:02:12,309 --> 01:02:10,000
scientific evidence that consciousness

1624
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:12,319
is primary ought to tell us that every

1625
01:02:16,309 --> 01:02:14,000
life on the planet is part of an

1626
01:02:19,349 --> 01:02:16,319
interconnected story that matters and

1627
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:19,359
that these stories our stories imprint

1628
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:22,000
forever in the fabric of existence a i

1629
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:24,400
think that's a beautiful flowery phrase

1630
01:02:29,109 --> 01:02:26,880
but i also think that you know

1631
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:29,119
these ideas these concepts they really

1632
01:02:33,190 --> 01:02:30,640
imprint on us

1633
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:33,200
and they're these these concepts are

1634
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:34,720
things that we can kind of bring forward

1635
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:35,920
and trying to

1636
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:37,599
marry how

1637
01:02:42,549 --> 01:02:39,440
mary mary

1638
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:42,559
these different beguiling aspects of the

1639
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:44,720
phenomenon together to try to really get

1640
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:46,720
at something that's a little bit more

1641
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,960
clear of a picture don't you think

1642
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:51,119
yeah i mean if you're gonna try that's

1643
01:03:00,309 --> 01:02:57,349
jay i really appreciate your time as

1644
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:00,319
always uh oh man before

1645
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:03,359
next wednesday if uh you know we don't

1646
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:06,079
i'm sure we'll uh talk you know uh

1647
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:08,000
rather soon

1648
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:10,319
we got a dr bob mcguire next week it'll

1649
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:13,200
be fun yeah that's gonna be awesome and

1650
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:17,039
absolutely um we got the 17th yeah

1651
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:19,359
so a lot of that's going to be a big one

1652
01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:21,200
so absolutely 100

1653
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:23,200
have a great day sean yeah see you man

1654
01:03:27,589 --> 01:03:26,079
you too love you bro

1655
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:27,599
see everybody wait you got to say it

1656
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:28,559
back

1657
01:03:32,470 --> 01:03:30,720
i love you too oh thank you i love you

1658
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:32,480
too man i love you very much all right

1659
01:03:36,069 --> 01:03:34,000
i'll give you i'll give you a nice big

1660
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:36,079
heart there all right perfect all right

1661
01:03:45,910 --> 01:03:43,589
i've taken a very good look at the

1662
01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:45,920
american official investigation program

1663
01:03:49,670 --> 01:03:47,839
project blue book run by the air force

1664
01:03:51,510 --> 01:03:49,680
and i have uh

1665
01:03:53,029 --> 01:03:51,520
quite unequivocally described it to

1666
01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:53,039
scientific colleagues back in the states

1667
01:03:58,930 --> 01:03:55,760
as superficial and incumbent

1668
01:04:21,910 --> 01:03:58,940
welcome to witness citizens

1669
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:24,360
citizens